7mm The Old Man's Workbench - tales of a rivet side

[Dog Star]

In between the FA Cup matches today and recordings of NFL, Peter managed to fit the axleguards and springs to one TTA underframe and prime the result with Halfords' Red Primer (as an undercoat for the red solebar of a Class 'A' tank. Seeing the underframe with primer prompted thoughts about purchase of the top coat paints.

* what is a suitable paint for the red band on the solebar?
* what is a suitable paint for the grey barrel of a Shell tank in the mid 1980s period?

The JLTRT barrel is a resin casting with a good surface - generally. Each end of the barrel has a small "grin" in the surface, just above the bottom of the tank and visible when the barrel in placed into the underframe. This "grin" is a roughness in the resin surface - initial thoughts are to obtain some filler-primer, spray the affected area and then cut back with 600 / 800 / 1000 wet and dry. What is others experience of such primer on resin?

regards, Graham

 

[hrmspaul]

Graham

I'm building my third at the moment, its a really nice kit, the only points I would make are as follows :-

Folding up the walkway requires a folding tool of one kind or another.

The indents on the tank that the walkway fits into don't quite match up with the walkway you will probably need to hack away at a few to get everything to fit perfectly.

You can get the W irons to work, but the wagon is so heavy 690g that you don't need suspension.

The distance between the W irons is very tight for scale 7 you will probably find you need to give the W irons a little push outwards to get the wheels to rotate freely.

Fox do transfer for these wagons, Paul Bartletts site has lots of photos of them but you will find that they were all very subtly different and that the kit makes up only a relative small percentage of wagons that seem to be refered to as TTAs.

Richard

Richard

Could you post some photos of the finished model to show the brake rigging clearly - especially the right hand end with the brake lever and also the top with these long walkways. I should then be able to identify what the origin was. I do have hundreds of unpublished photos of SMBP tank wagons. Their original numbering was logical, but it got screwed up with TOPS, not least because everything was allocated an SMBP Tops number, and then Shell and BP split so the fleet was divided up - and all of this before the rebuilding of many VB wagons to AB (and I strongly suspect that is what this wagon represents).

Paul Bartlett

 

[Dog Star]

Hi Paul,

Richard has built the version with short walkways... we have the version with the long walkways. I can post a photo of the long walkway etch if that is of interest to you.

I have noticed that there are 45T GLW Class A tanks with just a single, long, walkway on one side of the barrel. How common was this variant of the general family?

regards, Graham

 

[Dog Star]

Just when I thought everything was going so well... the turnouts of HH are progressing, there are "four wheels on my (Peter's) wagon (the TTA), the publicity for the Basingstoke Show in 2013 is up and running... something has gone ****-**. The workbench has been creaking under the weight of a Mk.1 (the Easybuild kits are back).

To recap, Peter is building five Mk.1s for the mid 1980s... so anti-corrosion repairs are the norm and that means adding material to the bodyside as a representation of the repair work to door pillars. Here is a photo of what has been done by BR on the prototypes:-



Bob has provided dimensions of the visible portion of the repair, for convenience in model terms the strip is 40 thou by 5 thou. My initial idea was to cut some strips from Evergreen 5 thou sheet so I made a cutting jig and sliced up a few inches of the sheet. Out with the butanone and apply an over-length strip - seems ok so left to dry. One hour later I trimmed the ends of the strip and noticed that an end was loose - not just one end, the entire strip fell away.

To my surprise butanone appears not to have touched the bodyside. I thought that these sides were ABS extrusions hence why I reached for the butanone rather than Slater's MEK.

Who has affixed styrene to the Easybuild sides? What did you use?

I am loathe to use Polyweld or similar as I fear that such stuff will just eat the 5 thou styrene strip. Any suggestions as to how else to represent the repairs to the prototype?

regards, Graham

 

[Dikitriki]

Tape? Although this seems a naff cop-out, I used it to represent the beading on a Stove R, and it's as good now as it was 20 odd years ago when I put it on.

Richard

 

[Dog Star]

Tape? Although this seems a naff cop-out, I used it to represent the beading on a Stove R, and it's as good now as it was 20 odd years ago when I put it on.

Maybe I ought to have included this photo...



The hinge is formed of brass etches... a flat plate on the surface of the bodyside / repair strip and a "T" section through the flat plate to form the hinge pin.

regards, Graham

 

[Locomodels]

Maybe I ought to have included this photo...


Very interesting, are you planning to do the paint runs as well?

 

[Dog Star]

Very interesting, are you planning to do the paint runs as well?

No, although I did think about the fresh grease oozing from the grease nipple.

Suggestions about representing the repair strip then Paul?

 

[Locomodels]

Suggestions about representing the repair strip then Paul?

It really depends on what plastic the sides are made from, but isocyanate might do the job.

 

[Dog Star]

The Black Hole of ******* struck today... a small part of the MMP Class 08 went AWOL - why is it always the small, nay minute, parts which go ping never to be seen again?

If you have built the Class 08 and decided to use part 18, a short support for the front vacuum hose dummy, rather than part 19, the longer support bar for the dummy, - and you still have part 19, now is your chance to put that spare item to a good use!

Photo evidence from Brain Daniels shows that 08 886 had the long support in the recent past and as we are doing 08 887 then we feel that a long support is the part to use. We shall be very grateful if you can help with our loss of part 19.

thank you, Graham

 

[3 LINK]

I do not know what this part looks like, but being a bracket would it be possible to make one out of some scrap etch ?

Martyn.

 

[Dan Randall]

Never mind missing brackets - we seem to be missing a few photos of the 08's build....


Regards

Dan

 

[Dog Star]

Never mind missing brackets - we seem to be missing a few photos of the 08's build....

The MMP Class 08 is being built by my son, photos are here... you cannot see part 19, that has gone AWOL .

I do not know what this part looks like, but being a bracket would it be possible to make one out of some scrap etch ?

Not easily... the bracket includes the first layer of the vacuum dummy and that is not "scrap-etch" shaped.

regards, Graham

 

[Dan Randall]

Thanks for the link to the 08 build Graham.


Regards

Dan

 

[Locomodels]

The Black Hole of ******* struck today... a small part of the MMP Class 08 went AWOL - why is it always the small, nay minute, parts which go ping never to be seen again?

- and you still have part 19, now is your chance to put that spare item to a good use!

thank you, Graham

Graham,

As you know I have not started mine yet, and will not for some time. I will look out Part 19 and get it in the post to you on Monday.

 

[hrmspaul]

There are many different permutations on these 45ton tanks - each of the companies had a noticeably different 'take' on how to arrange the brake rigging see http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essopickeringa as I think the photo looks like the Pickering example - but see the similar collections http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essochasrobertsa http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essopowellduffryna and of course Met Camm had its own.

There are certainly some SMBP Class A examples with full length footboards. Whether the end ladders are straight or curved is another question! Are there decent photos of the model from the right hand end (unlike the one on JLTRL site?

Unfortunately, sales of photos of tank wagons imply there is bugger all interest in them and I have scanned very few of what I have.

Paul Bartlett

Unfortunately I did not see any response to the request for photographs of the brake rigging or the ladders. However, I have posted more SMBP class A tank wagons which include some with long walkways. Some may be of use. As I said there is so little interest in tank wagons I don't like spending a lot of time on them, other photos are far more popular. However a good heads up on what this kit represents and I will look for something which may be suitable.

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bpoepikote
http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/sukoepikote

Paul Bartlett

 

[Dog Star]

Unfortunately I did not see any response to the request for photographs of the brake rigging ....

This is a bit like a catch 22 situation... the brake rigging has yet to be applied because we are not sure about the pull rods between the brake yolk fulcrums and the (slack adjuster?) levers adjacent to the air brake cylinder. Similarly, the ladders are in flat etch at this time.

Happy to post pictures of the brake parts and of the ladder / walkway etches if of interest.

regards, Graham

 

[hrmspaul]

This is a bit like a catch 22 situation... the brake rigging has yet to be applied because we are not sure about the pull rods between the brake yolk fulcrums and the (slack adjuster?) levers adjacent to the air brake cylinder. Similarly, the ladders are in flat etch at this time.

Happy to post pictures of the brake parts and of the ladder / walkway etches if of interest.

regards, Graham

Graham

I thought Richard Carr had completed one.

Is there no mention of the origin in the kit? If you post photos then I may be able to make something out - the four manufacturers all tackled the brake rigging in noticeably different ways. I was just a bit annoyed at the idea that because a few SMBP tanks had been looked at on the web the kit was considered to be incorrect. It may be but with the combination of manufacturers, the possibilities of the kit being either a straight air brake or a vacuum brake conversion before considering what the barrel was like.... It was unfortunate that SMBP introduced a very logical way of renumbering their wagons for TOPS (which I have a copy of), but they were never carried as the joint sales operation split up at the same time. The new numbers are sometimes the same as the SMBP Tops numbers, but often not. Their total fleet was in excess of 5000 when TOPS was introduced.

Paul Bartlett

 

[Dog Star]

I thought Richard Carr had completed one.

Yes, Richard has finished several... just that I felt that your post deserved a response, I shall take photos of the parts at some point this weekend and post here.

Is there no mention of the origin in the kit?

I have had some discussions with Laurie about the material which was used to prepare the kit and Laurie has given some information... just that the information which was provided is for a vacuum-brake wagon whereas we wish to build our kits as air-brake and for which JLTRT has supplied parts.

I was just a bit annoyed at the idea that because a few SMBP tanks had been looked at on the web the kit was considered to be incorrect. It may be but with the combination of manufacturers, the possibilities of the kit being either a straight air brake or a vacuum brake conversion before considering what the barrel was like....

I have searched Tourret, Coppin, Geoff Gamble Air-Brake tank wagons, your web site and that of Huw Millington - the photos from those sources indicate that the kit as supplied by JLTRT probably has a Class A prototype suitable for the mid 1980s (and other non-petroleum products in later years, eg. water carriers)... just not that easy to find a photo on the internet. I think that I posted web-links to a couple of examples earlier in this thread although since posting those links I have realised that there might be some minor differences on detail in the spring hanger brackets and in the vertical plates along the solebars.

None of this takes anything away from the rather nice model which can be produced from the kit. We have two and I suspect that we might have several more as and when we can establish running numbers.

regards, Graham

 

[hrmspaul]

Yes, Richard has finished several... just that I felt that your post deserved a response, I shall take photos of the parts at some point this weekend and post here.

I have had some discussions with Laurie about the material which was used to prepare the kit and Laurie has given some information... just that the information which was provided is for a vacuum-brake wagon whereas we wish to build our kits as air-brake and for which JLTRT has supplied parts.

I have searched Tourret, Coppin, Geoff Gamble Air-Brake tank wagons, your web site and that of Huw Millington - the photos from those sources indicate that the kit as supplied by JLTRT probably has a Class A prototype suitable for the mid 1980s (and other non-petroleum products in later years, eg. water carriers)... just not that easy to find a photo on the internet. I think that I posted web-links to a couple of examples earlier in this thread although since posting those links I have realised that there might be some minor differences on detail in the spring hanger brackets and in the vertical plates along the solebars.

None of this takes anything away from the rather nice model which can be produced from the kit. We have two and I suspect that we might have several more as and when we can establish running numbers.

regards, Graham

Those references barely touch the subject. It is possible that JLTRT used the main published reference to these wagons. This tabulates the full 45ton fleet.

Bartlett, Paul W & Fidczuk, Peter (1992) Tank wagons, part 6. SMBP 45ton GLW tank wagons, Model Railways vol. 9 (part 4) pp 182 - 188. Drawing SMBP 45t Class A tank wagon vacuum brake diag. TT026H/J/N and Airbrake TT088F.

This drawing is a Pickering built wagon with a full length walkway on both sides and a pair of near straight end ladders (there is a kink in them). It gives both the Vacuum brake and air brake conversion with Bruninghaus suspension.

In my new collection I haven't looked widely but this is a Pickering with full length walkway http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/sukoclassa/e5352bdfe and http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/sukoclassa/e5352c01e - same wagon from other end.

As you may notice the interest in this new collection is negilgible.

Paul Bartlett

PS remember the good old days when a kit manufacturer actually acknowledged the sources of the information they use!