GBR Livery

[Eastsidepilot]

Glad they kept the arrows.



...but I'm surprised it wasn't a red star or hammer and sickle going by this present 'government' ?

 

[AndyB]

Clearly no regard for the painting throughput times and cost for the vehicle manufacturers or refurbishers. 4 different colours on intermediate cars and 5 on the driving cars.
And no, it can't economically be done with vinyls as they bring a whole different set of costs.

 

[Genghis]

Clearly no regard for the painting throughput times and cost for the vehicle manufacturers or refurbishers. 4 different colours on intermediate cars and 5 on the driving cars.
And no, it can't economically be done with vinyls as they bring a whole different set of costs.

An underestimate I think: two blues, two reds and a white plus an orange stripe on all cars with yellow on the nose.
Pretty sure this would be done with vinyls these days but we'll see.

 

[AndyB]

Problem with vinyls is that, left on for too long, the underlying paint is damaged when they are removed. They have a much shorter life in a demanding environment like rail than a paint finish and are more easily damaged. So on a whole-life cost basis, they are unsuitable for rail, except for special short-term use.

 

[Osgood]

You can do some great things with vinyl

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

The new livery looks like an angular inverted British Airways logo.

Being red, white and blue we'll see how long it takes to fade in service - like the old NSE 'Colgate' livery which faded to a pale blue and pink.

 

[hrmspaul]

The yellow nose is interesting as I understood this was no longer necessary now that high power forward lights are usual.

Paul

 

[Ian Rathbone]

How does it work on a three car train? How will it fit on a Flirt unit? There will need to be a different design for each class of train. They need to treat the train as a whole, not individual coaches. I think the BR intercity or the Stagecoach South Western liveries were better - they were sleek, and unified the whole train.

Ian R

 

[tomburnham]

Up 'till now I thought that the current TransPennine Express livery was the worst, over fussy, design but this is vomit inducing!
Is the name "Great British Railways" actually applicable anyway as the railways of Scotland and Wales remain the responsibility of the devolved governments and will be retaining their own liveries, so all that remains on the island of Great Britain is England. How about "English Railways" with a livery of plain white with a red stripe along the waist line for the inter city trains with red with a white stripe for commuter and local services or is that too DB?
My advice to the designers is "less is more" and "KISS".

Tom.

 

[John Duffy]

Up 'till now I thought that the current TransPennine Express livery was the worst, over fussy, design but this is vomit inducing!
Is the name "Great British Railways" actually applicable anyway as the railways of Scotland and Wales remain the responsibility of the devolved governments and will be retaining their own liveries, so all that remains on the island of Great Britain is England. How about "English Railways" with a livery of plain white with a red stripe along the waist line for the inter city trains with red with a white stripe for commuter and local services or is that too DB?
My advice to the designers is "less is more" and "KISS".

Tom.

No Tom, the name is not. If fact it is insulting. Rather like every second television programme being titled The Great British something or other, there is no end to their propaganda. It places the once proud railway network somewhere between a bake-off and a knitting bee. Maybe though, looking around the place, they are trying to remind everyone that they are actually in the UK.

The problem of course is that they are using the name based on Great Britain, a name that was established when Scotland was added to England and Wales, whilst the livery attempts to use the current flag of the United Kingdom. That of course also included parts of Ireland. None of which makes the slightest sense when transport is devolved.

The lack of imagination must be deliberate but with the current mindset in London being that when all else fails drape yourself in a flag, it is unsurprising.

John

 

[76043]

As I understand it, Network Rail will now fall under GBR management, so GBR does in fact cover the whole UK network. GBR trains will obviously run into both Scotland and Wales. I also understand the design was done in-house at DfT to reduce costs incurred by expensive design houses. As is usual, dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

I wasn't a fan of the NSE toothpaste livery, so some you like and some you don't, that's life, get used to it. But luckily back then there weren't any forums to complain to, just your nearest rail enthusiast on the platform with you.

As for the name, this was coined by the previous government, but in some ways what choice did they have? They wouldn't and couldn't call it British Railways, it wouldn't fit with their ideology. But the reality is there's very little point going back, they had to come up with something different.
Tony

 

[Osgood]

An interesting history of rail franchising and liveries from the demise of BR - takes a wee while to get used to the delivery style, some whacky graphics and comments, I found it best to watch at increased speed e.g. x 1.5.
First part here:

As for liveries, most modern stuff has a limited shelf life in terms of style.
Some had little or no style to start with, but that of course is subjective and I certainly wouldn’t want the job of designing something that will appeal to all rail user tastes!

For me the liveries that appeal, and which have stood the rest of time through their various iterations are the simpler ones possessing a degree of elegance, like the green of GWR and the burgundy of EMR.

 

[Genghis]

The yellow nose is interesting as I understood this was no longer necessary now that high power forward lights are usual.

Paul

UK lost the argument at the EU standards body to retain the mandatory yellow fronts even with the now mandatory high power headlights. I have no argument with the lights which certainly make trains more visible. When Heathrow Express was introduced the company attempted to obtain a derogation to the requirement for a yellow front as these trains had the UIC headlight arrangement. I was a member of the Rolling Stock Subject Committee for the meeting that considered the application. We rejected it on the grounds that yellow is the colour that remains most visible for people losing their eyesight (think of old lady walking her dogs across an occupation crossing) so had a safety benefit; the application of yellow costs very little so was a reasonably practicable measure to be applied under UK Health and Safety law. The meeting was observed by HMRI's Technical Director, Alan Cooksey, who commentated that we had made the only possible decision in rejecting the application.

Later under the EU Interoperability Directives the use of Technical Standards for Interoperability and associated Euronorms was enshrined in UK law with no possibility of requiring additional or different requirements. Hence the lack of yellow fronts (and more expensive problems such as cracking on Intercity trains). However, IIRC ORR has required a risk assessment for any decision to not apply yellow fronts as an additional safety measure. Perhaps someone in DfT appreciates the issue.

 

[Osgood]

“Euronorms”………

 

[J_F_S]

...but I'm surprised it wasn't a red star or hammer and sickle going by this present 'government' ?

I wonder if perhaps you have fallen into the trap of beleiving the lie that this is some kind of Socialist "re-Nationalisation"? In fact, not one single asset will come under government ownership, the infrastructure is already publicly owned and the rolling stock will remain in the ownership of the ROSCOs - the biggest rip-off in history. Nor will it touch the freight companies (who are all losing money hand over fist) nor the "Open access" operators - which all the current franchise owners will morph into. And Scotland and Wales have already been mentioned.

And no one has mentioned the ridculous uniforms ... with their super-clashing red stripes on blue, they are an epilepsy-fit in waiting for some people.

I think all with a genuine interest in the success of the railways should keep a VERY wary eye on what is going on - I for one, simply do not trust the intent behind it: if the DfT wanted to make a success of the railways, they could have made many improvements to the franchises they have controlled for years but no such thing has happened - witness the incompaible rolling stock entering service on Transpenine and Northern - a complete nonesense.

 

[76043]

The arguement now is that by creating GBR, decisions will be made in Derby by railway people working in GBR and not DfT in London. Maybe this is the nearest we'll get to putting the railways back in the hands of railway people.

As for freight, Beeching saw that off, despite what strides the Eastern Region were making at the time. Now with some 8% of the market electric autonomous lorries will finally kill off most of that.
Tony

 

[Eastsidepilot]

I wonder if perhaps you have fallen into the trap of beleiving the lie that this is some kind of Socialist "re-Nationalisation"? .........

I'm too old to fall into traps! I was taking the piss.
I'm all for having our railways nationalised instead of in the hands of private companies that don't really look after their customers, I'd also like to see our energy and water nationalised which is also too important a resource to be owned half the time by foreign companies who's interests are not with the UK ! ...I just don't like our present so called government and the people in it and what they are doing, in my view Nationalising the railway properly is about the only thing I agree with so far but for everything else they deserve all the s**t they get thrown at them !

 

[Eastsidepilot]

As for freight, Beeching saw that off, despite what strides the Eastern Region were making at the time. Now with some 8% of the market electric autonomous lorries will finally kill off most of that.
Tony

Yep, more drivers out of work ! so much for progress, it'll be the same with taxi's and delivery drivers. AI and the future sucks !
Human beings will end up as un-intelligent useless fat blobs of flesh glued to screens and sofa's having their fat burger delivered by drone all paid for by benefit's, that is if of coarse there still are people able to work and earn money to pay into the system to pay for the benefits, but then maybe AI can produce everything we need with out us paying for it !

 

[simond]

Yep, more drivers out of work ! so much for progress, it'll be the same with taxi's and delivery drivers. AI and the future sucks !
Human beings will end up as un-intelligent useless fat blobs of flesh glued to screens and sofa's having their fat burger delivered by drone all paid for by benefit's, that is if of coarse there still are people able to work and earn money to pay into the system to pay for the benefits, but then maybe AI can produce everything we need with out us paying for it !

Verging on politics…. But fwiw, I do not think your vision is right, Col.

Those who do not have skills beyond that which robotics and computing can provide may indeed become “un-intelligent useless fat blobs of flesh glued to screens and sofas” but their lifestyle will not be paid for by those who are working, because it will unaffordable, unwelcome and unfair for maybe 10% to pay for maybe 90%. And the ten percent will diminish in time…

this poses a problem that I hope governments are considering, because it it is left to some parties, the welfare will be switched off, and a period of anarchy will follow. Fundamentally the few who will control the means of production will not have any use for the majority when they are not needed for work, and become merely “a drain”.

That leaves those in control with a bit of a dilemma, and many of the potential outcomes are horrific.

and I’ve always considered myself an optimist…

 

[Eastsidepilot]

That leaves those in control with a bit of a dilemma, and many of the potential outcomes are horrific.

and I’ve always considered myself an optimist…

I don't suppose at our age it's not really a worry as we won't be here to suffer it, I just feel sorry for the kids growing up or even those just born and the crap we'll leave them with but hey they might come up with a better paint job for the railways !