Premier - Potter's pallet palaver

SimonT

SimonT

Western Thunderer
Electric trucks are closer than you think.
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That may be true but having done a huge amont of motorway driving this year and subsequent number of loo/coffee breaks, I can confirm that a second wave of building charging stations is taking place in the CAR parks. On the truck side - zip.

Related to this absence of any kind of top level thinking, the trumpeting of a contract for Amazon to build data stores in the UK ignores one uncomfortable truth. Ireland went down this path a few years ago and the power consumption was then a couple of percent. This year it will hit 20% of all Irish power generation. A lot of power is used in crypto-currency transactions. As I live in a wild place, I'm researching power generation and storage for us to go off grid.
 
Eastsidepilot

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
BrushType4 said:
Electric trucks are closer than you think. Very likely, trucks will be autonomous and will close together nose to tail on motorways and will really be road trains. Only needing humans to open and close the trailer doors. Within five years we will see something similar, Ten years and truck driving will be one of those jobs destined to the past.
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The idea of electric driverless trucks maybe a good idea but at what cost ? more humans losing a job for starters, people need to earn money to live not everyone is able or more likely wants to sit behind a bloody computer screen for a job !
Ten years ? I cant see that ! Electric cars are already showing us what a problem they can be with regards the batteries and breakdowns. Get an electric road train stuck on a motorway that you can't shift and !........

So called progress isn't necessarily a good thing as the more they push humans out of the picture we will become just fat blobs interwoven into a settee watching a bloody screen trying to survive on minimal benefits if any ? especially with the likes of Racheal Reaves running it :))

Col :D
 
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Eastsidepilot

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Jordan said:
Car driver thinking. :rolleyes: why shouldn't cars have to give way to trucks?? Trucks are only on the road for one reason - to deliver goods. Not pratting about much of the time for 'social, domestic & pleasure' as the car insurance line sums it up.... :p
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Autonomous vehicles in amongst 'real' vehicles will be a pain in the arse and almost certainly be a target for general abuse and will cause even more problems for traffic.
Col.
 
BrushType4

BrushType4

Western Thunderer
Eastsidepilot said:
Autonomous vehicles in amongst 'real' vehicles will be a pain in the arse and almost certainly be a target for general abuse and will cause even more problems for traffic.
Col.
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Real vehicles will be phased out over the next 20 years. Maybe sooner. Some roads will be autonomous only before that, probably motorways first.

Car ownership will also reduce. No need to own a car if you can call one up when required and it collects you and takes you to your destination all hands free. If you do own a car, people will be able to book it when you’re not using it Airbnb style.

Personal and freight transport is about to step change beyond recognition and it’s very close.
 
SimonT

SimonT

Western Thunderer
Real vehicles will be phased out over the next 20 years.
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Bearing mind that all this will be done by businesses to make huge amounts of money and that these businesses can't get mobile signal and proper, never mind high speed, broadband to much of the countryside... They need 5G to do this and there is cock all 5G around here, even in the towns.
And no one has demonstrated how you tow a loaded trailer out of a muddy field with one of these things.....

Damn fine rabbit hole:)
 
simond

simond

Western Thunderer
SimonT said:
Bearing mind that all this will be done by businesses to make huge amounts of money and that these businesses can't get mobile signal and proper, never mind high speed, broadband to much of the countryside... They need 5G to do this and there is cock all 5G around here, even in the towns.
And no one has demonstrated how you tow a loaded trailer out of a muddy field with one of these things.....

Damn fine rabbit hole:)
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Yes, Stafford will be a particular problem, given our experience at Guildex and in the hotel...
 
simond

simond

Western Thunderer
Eastsidepilot said:
The idea of electric driverless trucks maybe a good idea but at what cost ? more humans losing a job for starters, people need to earn money to live not everyone is able or more likely wants to sit behind a bloody computer screen for a job !
Ten years ? I cant see that ! Electric cars are already showing us what a problem they can be with regards the batteries and breakdowns. Get an electric road train stuck on a motorway that you can't shift and !........

So called progress isn't necessarily a good thing as the more they push humans out of the picture we will become just fat blobs interwoven into a settee watching a bloody screen trying to survive on minimal benefits if any ? especially with the likes of Racheal Reaves running it :))

Col :D
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This is one area where we oldies have an advantage over the yoof of today.

We are in with a chance of retiring before we are made redundant...
 
simond

simond

Western Thunderer
76043 said:
I'd be happy to fit a workbench to my driverless car and do something useful. There's never enough wagons and there's never enough time to build them.

But we are drifting off topic slightly, if we know the future of road freight, what's the future for rail freight?
Tony
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probably much as it is today, shifting big block trains.

Then again, if big block road trains can do it cheaper and more efficiently, and most importantly, with fewer and smaller subsidies and less state capital investment, why bother having trains at all? It would save the cost of electrification of a considerable portion of the network, and converting the railway estate into motorways that would bring freight and passengers into city centres might be extremely advantageous, as well as very easy.
 
simond

simond

Western Thunderer
SimonT said:
Related to this absence of any kind of top level thinking, the trumpeting of a contract for Amazon to build data stores in the UK ignores one uncomfortable truth. Ireland went down this path a few years ago and the power consumption was then a couple of percent. This year it will hit 20% of all Irish power generation. A lot of power is used in crypto-currency transactions.
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This is the road block -literally.

Some time back, I did the sums, which I can't now find, but the simple truth of the matter is that there is insufficient generation capacity to support the transition from hydrocarbon to electric road transport. This is not "not quite enough", it is massive, "nowhere near enough". Maybe the current generation overcapacity might offer 10% of what is required.

Given the ineptitude and reluctance of government (of any colour) to get into building nuclear, and the clear desire to get rid of carbon (with the appalling exception of Drax, and the subsidies paid to rip up virgin forests in Canada and ship then by heavy diesel power to Yorkshire) coupled with the failure to get reliable tidal power, and the inevitable vagaries of wind and solar, this seems to me to be an elephant in the room which is neither being recognised, nor resolved, and presumably will not be for many years to come.

So I'd hang on to your gas guzzlers for a few years if you can - there might be a delay in delivering the promised land...
 
simond

simond

Western Thunderer
timbowales said:
The problem with converting railways to roadways is that railway rights of way just aren't wide enough!
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only if you want three lanes and a hard shoulder each way.

If you have computer controlled vehicles, they can follow each other at very short headways (well under 1 second) at reasonable speeds and don't need to overtake. One or two lanes each way will surely suffice.
 
Osgood

Osgood

Western Thunderer
Freight - well, there'll be a lot less (as in zero) iron ore to haul to the furnaces that won't be producing virgin steel.
On the other hand, there may be more trains hauling imported steel produced in a less green way than we currently produce.

And since we are almost at critical point for the aggregates reserve (landbank of mineral deposits with consent for extraction) there may well be more trains hauling imported aggregate.
On the other hand, there may well be less aggregate used as it would appear some local authorities are looking at banning the use of high-carbon materials for house building. That's right, less concrete, fewer tiles, no corten steel panels or rolled zinc roof sheeting thank you very much, etc.
On the other hand, that may give rise to increased trains of imported timber.

On the other hand, maybe it'll all go by road smiley-bonk.gif
 
Eastsidepilot

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Osgood said:
Freight - well, there'll be a lot less (as in zero) iron ore to haul to the furnaces that won't be producing virgin steel.
On the other hand, there may be more trains hauling imported steel produced in a less green way than we currently produce.

And since we are almost at critical point for the aggregates reserve (landbank of mineral deposits with consent for extraction) there may well be more trains hauling imported aggregate.
On the other hand, there may well be less aggregate used as it would appear some local authorities are looking at banning the use of high-carbon materials for house building. That's right, less concrete, fewer tiles, no corten steel panels or rolled zinc roof sheeting thank you very much, etc.
On the other hand, that may give rise to increased trains of imported timber.

On the other hand, maybe it'll all go by road View attachment 223597
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...and the recycled EV's that will be scrapped earlier than a combustion engine vehicle as no one will be able to afford to repair them :))
 
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