Tales from The Room of Doom. Dipping a toe in various bucolic backwaters.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Slightly off topic (sorry Rob) but when I were a spotty young engineering apprentice circa 1970 we had a lecture at college on welding from someone from British Leyland. He was showing how the rain strips were spot welded onto an Austin Maxi. One brave student (not me!) asked if they also used any sealant. No, came the answer to which the obvious follow up was: doesn't it rust? The visitor then explained that of course it will corrode but so long as it gets through the warranty period they don't care. All the manufactures were the same and for every one getting fed up with BL and moving to Ford there was one fed up with Ford and moving to Vauxhall and so on; it goes round in a cycle except, that was when the Japanese were starting to get a foot in the door. Yes, their early products rusted quicker than an ice cream melting in this week's heatwave but they quickly learnt the lesson.

Mine was a course in product design and we were constantly being told whatever we design, to build in obsolescence or we would ultimately be putting ourselves out of work. Ironically, it was that built-in obsolescence that ultimately did for much of British industry which couldn't compete with the far east using similar tactics.

Whilst I can sort of see the justificeation for this approach in mass-market consumer products which can be expected to have a fairly short life anyway but model railway locomotives are a different kettle of fish and, if looked after, should be expected to serve throughout their owner's lives just as Triang and HD ones did. Those still run happily today and if they need a good clean/service it's a simple task.

I do think that many models hawned sve been eve alover complicated for the love of it by their designers.

It wasn't until the mid 1980s that effective anti corrosion processes became available and used in the automotive industry. The 1983 MGB I owned several years ago had needed major replacement bodywork after seven years by a previous owner.

RTR model railway "toys" are like most consumer goods, designed to cheaply manufactured, rather than dismantled and fiddled about with by the purchaser.

 

[Vaughan45]

Although some will probably disagree with me, I have noted that on some locos with painted coupling rods, the thickness of paint inside the crankpin hole can restrict the amount of 'play', which if replicated on all holes can cause slight binding or hesitancy at low speed. If an appropriate reamer or tapered round needle file is used to remove this paint it can be sufficient to improve running.

Whilst I have no experience with a Rapido Manning Wardle, I have used this technique on some other manufacturers locomotives with success, although it will invalidate the warranty if the model is subsequently returned.

 

[40057]

Regarding the above discussion on the longevity, or not, of present day production.

As pointed out above, it’s not just models. Attitudes to durability and repairability certainly used to be different. Whether the change was driven by manufacturers (and their workers) seeing planned obsolescence as desirable, or public demand for ‘up-to-date’ products, I don’t know.

I have a 1920ish advert for a Jubb Gauge 1 steam loco. The loco is promoted as an engine ‘you can operate with your son’ but so well made that ‘he will operate it with his son’. Leaving aside the gender stereotyping, the quality and longevity of the product was clearly seen as a positive by the manufacturer. I assume customers too, though I perhaps should point out that Jubb ceased trading about two years after the date of the advert.

Jubb’s locos though are still about and some of them at least still work.

Martin

 

[simond]

Phillips Patek watches take a similar view in their adverts.

PATEK PHILIPPE WATCHES
FOR MEN & LADIES​

Patek Philippe has always aimed for perfection by creating timepieces of unrivalled quality and reliability, the uniqueness and exclusiveness of which makes them rare and precious pieces, a unique legacy to be handed down from one generation to the next.


At work we still see instruments which we built in the 1990s come back for calibration or repair. The latter has become progressively more difficult as the components used are no longer available, or so expensive as to be uneconomic. We‘re not quite in the Phillipe Patek bracket, but we celebrate our centenary in July.

At which point, I retire

 

[RichardG]

Simon you must be very old

 

[simond]

Oh, I am, at least I feel it some Monday mornings!

Ten years here, almost to the day.
A lot of renewal and investment, new designs, new products.
Been great fun.

 

[Flaxfield]

RTR model railway "toys" are like most consumer goods, designed to cheaply manufactured, rather than dismantled and fiddled about with by the purchaser.

Well done. I love the way you never miss an opportunity to put the boot in about RTR products. Regardless of whether it's a generic coach or a troublesome loco, you don't disappoint.

Since I've been voicing the issues I've had with these locos, the posts from fellow Western Thunderers have been nothing but supportive.........but, as in life, there are exceptions.

To clarift. These models can be dismantled. It's far from easy and I am capable of doing so. BUT......I'm not going down this route when Rapido offer a warranty/repair service on new models.

I have the utmost respect for those modellers who can build a kit to a high standard and finish it to the standard we see on the RTR pre-grouping coaches ( As an example ).

It is such a pity that some of these modellers don't display the same level of respect to the modelling choices made by those such as myself who choose a different path, as in using " cheaply manufactured toys ".

As you may tell from the tone of my response here, I am utterly frustrated by my failure to obtain the running that I want from multiple examples of the same RTR locos.

Will I wade into a thread and make derogatory comments, regarding someone having issues whilst building a kit ?

You can just imagine it......" That's what you get for trying to turn a pile of scrap metal into a loco "

Funnily enough, that would never happen..and I don't know anyone who would.

So please, don't add to my frustration by inferring that it's my fault for choosing the products I do to pursue my hobby.


Rob

 

[Flaxfield]

Rob, these models seem to need more than mere running in. When I have had tight spots in RTR 00 locos, the problem has often been in the quartering. Can you detach the motor from a chassis? If so, you can then rotate the wheels and see if they are binding somewhere. Possibly, you can run the motor and still find the tight spot.

Most likely, one side rod will be tight on one crankpin at the tight spot. This is the wheel you need to rotate on its axle, in the direction to ease the tightness. I have found, wearing kitchen rubber gloves gives me enough purchase to twist wheels from Bachmann, maybe the Rapido ones are similar. You can judge quartering by sighting through the wheel spokes.

Make sure you don't leave marks the wheels. So if you still end up sending it back, the vendor has the option to sort things out and sell the model as refurbished to someone else.

Morning, Richard.

Thank you. I'll drop you a line later on today.

Rob

 

[Flaxfield]

Although some will probably disagree with me, I have noted that on some locos with painted coupling rods, the thickness of paint inside the crankpin hole can restrict the amount of 'play', which if replicated on all holes can cause slight binding or hesitancy at low speed. If an appropriate reamer or tapered round needle file is used to remove this paint it can be sufficient to improve running.

Whilst I have no experience with a Rapido Manning Wardle, I have used this technique on some other manufacturers locomotives with success, although it will invalidate the warranty if the model is subsequently returned.

Morning Vaughan.

There was indeed a lot of paint on the crankpin that detached itself.

Again, I'll update a bit later.

Rob

 

[spikey faz]

Well done. I love the way you never miss an opportunity to put the boot in about RTR products. Regardless of whether it's a generic coach or a troublesome loco, you don't disappoint.

Since I've been voicing the issues I've had with these locos, the posts from fellow Western Thunderers have been nothing but supportive.........but, as in life, there are exceptions.

To clarift. These models can be dismantled. It's far from easy and I am capable of doing so. BUT......I'm not going down this route when Rapido offer a warranty/repair service on new models.

I have the utmost respect for those modellers who can build a kit to a high standard and finish it to the standard we see on the RTR pre-grouping coaches.

It is such a pity that some of these modellers don't display the same level of respect to the modelling choices made by those such as myself who choose a different path, as in using " cheaply manufactured toys ".

As you may tell from the tone of my response here, I am utterly frustrated by my failure to obtain the running that I want from multiple examples of the same RTR locos.

Will I wade into a thread and make derogatory comments, regarding someone having issues whilst building a kit ?

You can just imagine it......" That's what get for trying to turn a pile of scrap metal into a loco "

Funnily enough, that would never happen..and I don't know anyone who would.

So please, don't add to my frustration by inferring that it's my fault for choosing the products I do to pursue my hobby.


Rob

I do wonder how many RTR locomotives are actually run on layouts as opposed to popped into display cabinets by 'collectors'.

Good for you for persevering with these locomotives. I agree that decent running should be achievable pretty much from the outset, but I'm one of those mad persons who doesn't mind taking a RTR models apart to make it better.

When I look at how much (little?) these little locomotives cost relative to how much I spend on a kit, I'm quite impressed they run at all! But I'm probably a bit out of touch!!

All the best
Mike

 

[Neil]

It makes one wonder just how many of the "returnees" are getting shipped straight back out to another unsuspecting punter..
Am I being a just tad cynical with this?

I very much doubt this is the case. I mentioned earlier in the topic that Monk Bar Models had sent the one they had ordered for me back to Rapido for repair or replacement. On Friday I finally received the Manning Wardle, it runs really well forwards but has a very slight bind in reverse. I have yet to run the model in so will reserve judgement on whether it goes back, but I think it's quite clear that Rapido aren't sending out returned duffers as replacements.

 

[simond]

I think it would be very unwise to ship known bad units to new customers, and I cannot see any business taking the risk.

Apart from the new customer logically being dissatisfied too, the reputational damage if caught would be severe.

 

[Terry]

I think it would be very unwise to ship known bad units to new customers, and I cannot see any business taking the risk.

Apart from the new customer logically being dissatisfied too, the reputational damage if caught would be severe

Many years ago I bought a video player from a (then) well known high street electrical goods retailer. We are talking video here, not DVD. When I got home I opened the sellotaped box to find that there was a video tape already in the machine. I was perplexed, but replaced it with another video tape and played it only to find that the picture not not very clear. I noticed that there was a sticker on the original video tape with someone's contact details thereon. Of course I telephoned the named gentlemen and asked how it was possible that my new machine contained a video tape with his details thereon. And of course, you already know the answer. He bought the machine, got it home, played his video tape and thought that the picture was fuzzy. So he returned it to the store for a replacement. The store put it back on display and sold it to the next mug who walked through the door!

Terry

 

[simond]

I suspect most of us could guess who the retailer was. I assume you got a refund.

They were particularly stupid not to check for a video cassette in the unit, but I guess they didn’t care.